Re: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in general

Joe Touch
Firstly my name is Ibrahim, my last name is Habib. So please check the facts first before making a statement.

Secondly: I add my voice to Roch and all support all the comments made by our colleagues:
We need transparency in how conferences are run. At a minimun finanical balance sheets should be made public showing how expenses are allocated; e.g., freebies, expenses charged by the IEEE staff who help in organizing the conference (the IEEE charges the conference for their staff they are not free).

I ran (and participated in running)conferences and workshopd over the past 18 years, and I have checked the numbers and I do have budget numbers from prior conferences. The bottom line is simple:

Registeration fees could be substantially decreased if the IEEE becomes more fiscally responsible on the expenses side, re-budgeting registeration fees such that conferences do not have to make 20% profit or surplus or whatever it is called. This is just semantics. It could be simply 5% only or 10%. The IEEE does not have to charge US$ 200 or 300 per day for one staff member. They are already paid employees of the IEEE. Finally freebies that go to some volunteers and executives also cost money and should be minimized or eliminated.

All of the above are facts, well known by the community. These are not statements. So let us try to solve the problem.

Prof. Ibrahim Habib
Director of Advanced Networking Research
Electrical Engineering Dept.
City University of New York

---- Original message ----
>Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2009 13:41:22 -0500
>From: Roch Guerin <guerin@ee.upenn.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in general
>To: Joe Touch <touch@ISI.EDU>
>Cc: habib@ccny.cuny.edu,Celia Desmond <c.desmond@sympatico.ca>,tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu
>
>Joe,
>
>Points well-taken. On the other hand "not for profit" and "fiscal
>responsibility" are two different concepts. I would argue that many
>conferences could run a tighter budget and pass the savings on to attendees.
>Let me make just one punctual and I believe representative comparison:
>- ACM CoNEXT 2009 early registration for (ACM and SIGCOMM) members:
>$525 (it was $525 last year - an increase of 0%, and btw so was it in 2007)
>- IEEE INFOCOM 2010 early registration for (ComSoc) members: $750 (it
>was $680 last year - an increase of over 10%, and it was $695 in 2008??)
>
>Looking just at the latest numbers, this amounts to a $225 difference
>(about 40%) for essentially similar "services," and that cannot be
>simply brushed aside. Someone and something is responsible for it.
>
>I don't want to point any finger, but conferences need to make a
>concerted effort to minimize ancillary costs that end-up being passed
>onto all attendees through higher registration fees. In particular,
>some conferences have a tradition of freebies for volunteers that I
>personally find distasteful, and that play no small role in raising
>their costs (e.g., CoNEXT has no free registrations or travel subsidies
>for anyone except local student helpers who receive a free student
>registration). I believe it is time to take a hard look at what this is
>costing all of us.
>
>If some conferences manage to keep their costs stable, why is it that
>others cannot - and I'm sorry but I have run enough conferences and
>reviewed enough conference budgets not to buy any of the excuses I have
>heard for why this is not possible....
>
>My 2c,
>
>Roch
>
>Joe Touch wrote:
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>> Habib,
>>
>> I want to reiterate Celia's point. I've seen the budgets for the IEEE
>> and ACM on this point. There is a 15-20% charge to meetings that goes
>> back to the parent organization, but it's not "profit" by any means.
>> That money goes as follows:
>>
>> - when conferences lose money (and they sometimes do),
>> that money helps cover the loss
>>
>> - conferences receive support from the IEEE that costs
>> money:
>> - they negotiate contracts with the hotels and
>> banquet sites, often getting much reduced rates
>> because the IEEE will return soon, even though a given
>> conference will not return for many years
>>
>> - they insure us. if a paper is submitted and someone
>> decides it was handled improperly, the IEEE helps
>> indemnify us against such suits. they also help
>> us if/when someone is injured at a meeting
>>
>> - the support us via their website and advertisements
>> e.g., including us in their list of upcoming meetings,
>> etc
>>
>> - as Celia noted, in the IEEE the conferences also help support
>> the journals. the fees for each journal do not pay the costs
>> required to publish it
>>
>> I have run numerous conferences in both the IEEE and ACM. In both cases
>> I have received substantial support from staff - staff who are
>> full-time, who are paid employees of the IEEE.
>>
>> As Celia noted, if you doubt *any* of this, please look at the numbers
>> first.
>>
>> Joe
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>> iEYEARECAAYFAksb8u0ACgkQE5f5cImnZrtoMACcC6bNNaVkTMzc9KWB9OAg0hRY
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>> =RRt+
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