Prof. Ibrahim Habib
---- Original message ----
>Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 09:24:51 -0500
>From: "Celia Desmond" <c.desmond@sympatico.ca>
>Subject: RE: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in general
>To: <habib@ccny.cuny.edu>,<obazan@ee.ryerson.ca>,"'Joe Touch'" <touch@ISI.EDU>
>Cc: <tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu>
>
>I am not sure where the impressions in this email came from, but I suggest
>that you might want to get some facts before making definitive statements.
>
>First, IEEE is Not-for-profit, and they do not make profit.
>
>IEEE does try to make a surplus of 20% on conferences whenever possible,
>because the membership dues do not cover the costs of the basic member
>services (magazines, etc) and the cost of these has to come from somewhere.
>In addition, IEEE and specifically ComSoc covers many additional benefits,
>such as student travel grants, awards, lecture tours, etc. because they DO
>care about helping people to become involved in the profession. The costs of
>these also come from any surplus from conferences or publications.
>
>In this case the conferences are ComSoc, and ComSoc has been struggling to
>be able to get to a budget that is zero based, rather than deficit, because
>the expenses for services such as conferences, members, publications, and
>things such as I mentioned above are higher than the income. Almost every
>program has had to be cut in order to manage to get to a zero base budget.
>
>Anyone who does not believe this is welcome to attend any BOG meeting to see
>the facts, and to see where the money comes from, and where it goes.
>
>It might look like there is a lot of money coming in, but please check the
>facts before making assumptions as to where it goes.
>
> Celia
>
>President, WorldClass - Telecommunications
>2007 IEEE Director and Secretary
>2006 IEEE VicePresident Technical Activities
>2002-2003 President IEEE Communications Society
>2001-2002 President IEEE Canada
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tccc-bounces@lists.cs.columbia.edu
>[mailto:tccc-bounces@lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of habib@ccny.cuny.edu
>Sent: December-06-09 2:34 AM
>To: obazan@ee.ryerson.ca; Joe Touch
>Cc: tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu
>Subject: Re: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in
>general
>
>I would like to remind you all that one of the main sources of income- and
>yes profit (lots of it)- to the IEEE is conferences. From experience, all
>ways to cutting-down costs will not really make a big difference in terms of
>what the IEEE charges you. In fact, I would argue that even if all events
>are cut-down attendees will still be charged at least US$500 or US$600 or
>more per person. This is to ensure a profit margin of at least 20% to 30% or
>even more per event.
>The IEEE will continue to utilize these events as a main source of
>profit-generating. The bigger the conference the higher is the profit.
>The IEEE does not care if you have a grant to pay for your registeration or
>not, or if you are coming from a poor country or not. They are in the
>business of making sure that their costs as an organization are covered and
>that they have profit. Non-for-profit status does not mean that they do not
>want profit. It gives them many advantages in terms of taxes liability,
>legal, finanical and adminstrative operations.
>So in summary, I do not think the IEEE will change the current mode of
>operation because it is proven to make them a good profit margin.
>To them, it really does not matter that we are suffering from these
>registeration fees as long as we continue to pay.
>
>Prof. Ibrahim Habib
>
>---- Original message ----
>>Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 15:48:24 -0500 (EST)
>>From: obazan@ee.ryerson.ca
>>Subject: Re: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in
>general
>>To: "Joe Touch" <touch@ISI.EDU>
>>Cc: tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu
>>
>>I think the travel expenses represent the real burden. Unfunded graduate
>>students can find it impossible to pay for an air flight from a developing
>>country (Africa/Asia) to US, EU or Australia. This could cost more than
>>50% of the least possible expenses (IEEE student registration, no banquet,
>>2-stars hotel,..).
>>
>>With the IEEE no-show policy, those MASc./PhD students won't be able to
>>publish in major conferences.
>>
>>One solution would be a new registration category (online attendance)in
>>which the author can participate through online video conferencing. For
>>example, the author should be present online during his paper's session.
>>Moreover, a special 1-hr or 2-hr session could be organized in which
>>"online attendees" should be present online to communicate/network/answer
>>questions with interested "regular attendees" via video conferencing.
>>
>>Conference organizers can limit the "online attendance" registration to
>>specific countries /IEEE regions. However, it's worthy to note that not
>>every graduate student in developed countries' universities can get the
>>sufficient funds to attend conferences.
>>
>>-Osama.
>>
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Miroslav Skoric wrote:
>>>> Ruay-Shiung Chang wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Please see the following Letter-to-the-editor in the October issue of
>>>>> IEEE
>>>>> Computer magazine.
>>>>>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------------
>>>>> To rectify the situation, conferences should be returned to university
>>>>> campuses where there are many classrooms that could be used as
>>>>> conference
>>>>> rooms. The professors and students could help organize and provide
>>>>> services
>>>>> for the conferences. Lodgings around universities typically are
>>>>> relatively
>>>>> inexpensive. It would be possible to reduce the budget for holding
>>>>> conferences and decrease the attendance fees.
>>>
>>> A few points on this:
>>>
>>> - - assuming this were viable, this would push all our conferences in the
>>> June - mid-August timeframe
>>>
>>>> In addition,
>>>> when lunches and/or conference banquets are provided (either included in
>>>> registration or offered for a small fee) within the campuses - the more
>>>> chances to feel academic lifestyle and mingle with students in a foreign
>>>> educational institution.
>>>
>>> - - you can't mingle with students and stay in their rooms at the same
>>> time. I.e., whenever the rooms are available, it's because the students
>>> are gone
>>>
>>> - - not only are the students gone, but many campus services shut down as
>>> a result. at universities homed in small towns (Cornell being one I have
>>> experience with), this shutdown spreads out to the surrounding town,
>>> i.e, some restaurants are closed
>>>
>>> The final point is that what universities contribute doesn't help the
>>> bottom line that much. Food still costs money, and dominates the overall
>>> fees. The only way to substantially reduce meeting costs is to:
>>>
>>> - do not provide lunch ($35-40/day)
>>> - do not provide breakfast ($25/day)
>>> - do not provide coffee breaks ($25/day)
>>> - do not provide a reception ($40-50)
>>> - do not provide a banquet ($80-100)
>>>
>>> Skip all these on a three day meeting and your overall costs will drop
>>> by $400 or so. Even if university costs drop *all* of these by 25%
>>> (which would be a lot, and would mean every event was at the
>>> university), that only saves $100.
>>>
>>> Joe
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>>> iEYEARECAAYFAksaqHUACgkQE5f5cImnZruL/wCaAp7kzwvGYp0StrYsJeAFaqHD
>>> qSoAn3H5Y1SYjccgoRwEwpoTaeZ1CiHW
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>>
>>
>>-----------
>>Osama Bazan, PhD
>>Post Doctoral Fellow
>>Electrical and Computer Engineering
>>Ryerson University
>>Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>>Phone: +1 416 979 5000 Ext. 4528
>>
>>
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