First, I agree with Nitin and Roch: job posts should be allowed that are
of community interest and related to a TCCC area. It is also difficult
to know what qualifies as commercial or not: I don't know about
Symantec's some industry research labs are as academic as can be.
Conversely, what if, say, the Toyota Technological Institute in Chicago
posts a job offer, isn't it endowed by a corporation? Who makes the call
in the end?
The May 1999 policy (notwithstanding the unilateral May 2010 amendment)
is pretty clear that this should be allowed, and that in doubt, the
input of the TCCC members should be requested. Maybe changes to the
policy should be put up for debate on the mailing list or at the next
meeting? My view is that the current policy is not broken, so there's no
need to fix it.
Cedric.
-----Original Message-----
From: tccc-bounces@lists.cs.columbia.edu
[mailto:tccc-bounces@lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of
tccc-request@lists.cs.columbia.edu
To: tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu
Hi, Roch,
Roch Guerin wrote:
> Joe,
>
> The risk is that this further decreases the value of being on the TCCC
> list for many current members, and not just students, which when
> combined with the flood of not necessarily very useful CFPs may end-up
> tilting into negative territory the overall value of being a member of
> the list. Since being on the list is in practice pretty much how one
> becomes a TCCC member, this seems like a pretty effective way to
reduce
> membership. I'm assuming that's the goal, right? ;-}
There are easier ways to accomplish that goal.
The issue is how to stay within the constraints set for us by the IEEE
ComSoc.
As a technical committee, we are allowed some leeway when it comes to
non-technical posts that are of 'community interest', but we've already
been
given very explicit limitations on that leeway.
This is an IEEE ComSoc list intended as a resource for technical
discussions.
Everything else is secondary, and by permission of the IEEE ComSoc.
There's no rule preventing someone from creating their own list for
commercial
posts, but that's simply out of scope for this list.
Joe
> Joe Touch wrote:
>> Hi, Nitin,
>>
>> Nitin H. Vaidya wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Joe:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> The TCCC mailing list is also open to other postings of potential
>>>>> interest to its members, which include job offers, and RFIs or
RFPs in
>>>>> areas of technical interest to TCCC members.
>>>>>
>>>> Note that this will be corrected very shortly; commercial posts are
prohibited
>>>> by IEEE ComSoc email policy.
>>>>
>>> Those of us looking for jobs in the area of networking --
>>> particularly recent Ph.D. students -- probably appreciate
>>> seeing a few "seeking people" advertisements in
>>> the flood of "desperately seeking papers" notices.
>>>
>>> Possible solutions would be to tolerate such job
>>> advertisements on the TCCC list -- afterall these don't
>>> seem to be frequent enough to be particularly painful
>>> yet -- or to promote a separate list for jobs (or
>>> jobs-for-Ph.D.s) postings, similar to jobs at cra.
<https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/cucslists/listinfo/tccc>
>>>
>>> As I see it, ComSoc's role should be to help its
>>> membership -- if, in the process, it happens to aid
>>> commercial interests, that is not necessarily
>>> a bad thing. In any event, ComSoc doesn't
>>> seem to put any resources behind this list
>>> as such, other than the voluntary efforts of
>>> the community, so perhaps ComSoc policies
>>> could be viewed as "good practices" as opposed
>>> to the law of the land.
>>>
>>
>> The ComSoc has a specific set of policies developed for its email
lists, of
>> which TCCC is one. We are currently running on a non-ComSoc server,
which makes
>> things easier for us, but that's not particularly relevant to the
policy.
>>
>> We could raise this issue with the ComSoc, but I suspect they would
conclude
>> that commercial job postings are outside the scope of a TC to
support, and that
>> they already provide venues (as a revenue source) for such posts
(e.g.,
>> advertisements in IEEE Communications and IEEE Network, and sale of
their email
>> lists).
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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