completely random process as you noted in one of your earlier posting.
-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Ephremides [mailto:etony@ece.umd.edu]
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:23 PM
To: Arunabha Sen; habib@ccny.cuny.edu; Joe Touch
Cc: tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu; Roch Guerin
Subject: Re: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in
general
Given the way the quality of the conferences deteriorates we might as
well
focus on the quality of the wine.
AE
Anthony Ephremides
Cynthia Kim Professor of Information Technology
ECE dept and ISR, University of Maryland
College Park, MD 20742
301-405-3641, etony(at)umd(dot)edu
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arunabha Sen" <arunabha.sen@asu.edu>
To: <habib@ccny.cuny.edu>; "Joe Touch" <touch@ISI.EDU>
Cc: <tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu>; "Roch Guerin" <guerin@ee.upenn.edu>
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in
general
To the surprise and (consternation) of quite a few attendees at Infocom
2006 in Barcelona, one of the organizers said that high cost of
registration was partly due to the fact that superior quality wine
served during lunch was expensive. It will be really sad if quality of
Infocom is judged by the quality of wine served instead of the quality
of papers presented.
-----Original Message-----
From: tccc-bounces@lists.cs.columbia.edu
[mailto:tccc-bounces@lists.cs.columbia.edu] On Behalf Of
habib@ccny.cuny.edu
Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:29 PM
To: Joe Touch
Cc: tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu; Roch Guerin
Subject: Re: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in
general
Joe..
Quickly, the points are the following:
1) Conferences should not pay money to IEEE support staff, this will cut
down the expenses and save money in registration fees.
2) Universities (at least some of them) can support functions like
Globecom and ICC. I did not say that attendees should also sleep in
students dorms. Attendees can arrange their own hotels.
We will gladly host Globecom or ICC at CUNY, during the summer time or
during the winter recess for Globecom. Why does it have to be when
school in session?? This does not make sense? ofcourse no university
will host anyone when school is in session. ICC is already in June or
July so that is very easy to do. Globeom can be moved to January and
that also will be no problem to host.
I can give you any proof you want. We have ample class rooms to hold
sessions (50 people per room, 100 per room whatever you want), we have
several auditoriums all over the city in our campuses, each one can host
up to 600 and some up to800 people). CUNY hosts lots of meetings and
conferences in various fields of science and humanities. So it is
nothing new for us here.
Go to our CUNY website and see for yourself and you can also send a
formal request to our COO and ask our adminstration to host Globecom and
ICC and there you will have your proof.
If there is a will there is a way.
3) Let us cut down the huge waste of funds that goes in supporting some
volunteers and executives fancy travel expenses.
Prof. Ibrahim Habib
---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 09:38:00 -0800
>From: Joe Touch <touch@ISI.EDU>
>Subject: Re: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in
general
>To: habib@ccny.cuny.edu
>Cc: tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu,Roch Guerin <guerin@ee.upenn.edu>
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Ibrahim,
>
>habib@ccny.cuny.edu wrote:
>> See my reply within..
>...
>
>>>> >> 4)IEEE staff members are already paid by the IEEE. There is no
need to charge the conference for their time.
>>> >
>>> >Where do you think that money comes from? We're the IEEE - we're
paying
>>> >when we use them. To use your analogy, why should other meetings,
>>> >journal subscribers, or the general membership pay for a service
that
>>> >only conference attendees benefit from?
>>
>> I do not know what is your point here? I am very clear: The IEEE
>> should not charge the conference "budget" for the IEEE staff time who
>> help in registeration and other logistics support.
>
>In your earlier post you argue that our conference should not pay for
>journals, because we aren't all subscribers.
>
>Well, why should journal or membership dues pay for the salaries of
IEEE
>members who support conferences, if they are not attending the
conference?
>
>I'm saying that *by your argument*, the salaries of those staff MUST be
>paid when serving the meeting, but you seem to conclude the opposite.
>
>We *cannot* benefit from IEEE staff without considering that we are
part
>of that larger organization, and we need to support that organization.
>
>>>> >> 5) It makes a lot of sense to conduct meetings in research labs
and universities as opposed to expensive 5 stars hotels.
>>> >
>>> >This is 4-star out of 5 in the US. The next step down often cannot
>>> >accommodate a meeting this large.
>>> >
>>> >I agree that we should consider cost when selecting a venue, but
let's
>>> >not start with an assumption that research labs or universities
either
>>> >can accommodate us or would be less cost effective when considered
as a
>>> >whole meeting (e.g., including transportation, etc.).
>>
>> AS I said before, it should be fully investigated because it will
save lots of expenses paid to hotels, specially food functions.
>
>That's an assumption. In past meetings, what I have saved on food I
have
>spent on transportation either to hotels or to the banquet venue. The
>*whole* budget needs to be considered when making this decision.
>
>>>> >> 6) Food functions and social events could be eliminated. A
single social gathering could be sufficient.
>>> >
>>> >Remember that these are also networking opportunities. Also keep in
mind
>>> >that it's not feasible to have 600+ people descending on small
local
>>> >restaurants in synchrony, which is why lunch has typically been
>>> >included. Same for coffee.
>>
>> WHo said anything about a local restaurant?!!.
>
>I was talking about not providing food at the meeting to save funds,
FWIW.
>
>> All Universities over
>> the whole world have local dinning rooms for students and Faculty and
>> attendees of a conference could simply use it and socialize and
mingle
>> there.
>
>Well, you're at a university, and so am I. We recently hosted the
>Infocom TPC meeting at USC on a Saturday - during homecoming - and
>arranged for food boxes to be delivered for lunch. Yes, that can work
>well, and IMO did. But that was on a weekend, and involved 150 people.
>
>Give you're at a university, and you think this will work, let me ask
>you to provide some evidence. Can you post dates when you think that
>CUNY could host a Globecom-sized event, including room for, e.g., 100
>students in dorm rooms, as well as rooms to support the Globecom tracks
>with 50 people/room, as well as the plenaries, ***when school is in
>session***?
>
>The point is that we *can* change this, but not by making assertions.
We
>need to offer alternatives - specific alternatives, with realistic
>capacity to support our large meetings. I invite everyone on the list
to
>post any details they can offer.
>
>Joe
>
>
>
>
>
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