Ibrahim Habib
---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:10:19 -0800
>From: Joe Touch <touch@ISI.EDU>
>Subject: Re: [Tccc] Cost of attendance from developing countries / in general
>To: habib@ccny.cuny.edu
>Cc: tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu,Roch Guerin <guerin@ee.upenn.edu>
>
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>Ibrahim,
>
>habib@ccny.cuny.edu wrote:
>> Joe..
>>
>> 1. "YOU" are the one who was questioning CUNY's capabilities to
>> organize Globecom or ICC so my answer to you was and still is YES we can
>> organize either or both.
>
>I am not questioning it; I'm asking you to confirm. You suggest that
>universities are a viable alternative. Some of the problems include the
>fact that universities don't deal directly with the IEEE; they usually
>require an internal sponsor (faculty, etc.) for the event to initiate
>the discussions.
>
This is not a problem. Ofcourse a faculty member will act as a local chair or co-chair. This goes without saying for those of us who know what it takes to organize conferences. But it does not have to be me and it does not have to be CUNY. There are colleagues in CUNY who may play this role.
>If faculty won't step up and help that process, it simply cannot start.
Ofcourse it goes without saying. There is no need to explain the obvious. Simply I will not do it.
>However, to be clear, I'm not asking to hold Globecom at CUNY per se
>(though I would not want to rule out any site either). I'm simply asking
>you to get some initial information, such as whether your school would
>be available as you claim, and what the approximate fees would be if any.
I am not "claiming" that CUNY is available. I am asserting that CUNY has the facilities to make it happen in response to your claim and challenge that it cannot be done at CUNY.
You did not make your statements in your prior email. You were challenging CUNY facilities. Now, you are making a specific questionabout costs. Ofcourse there will be costs. But this is not the way to go about doing it. The correct way is to get a mandate from the community. Then "YOU" should call for a committee to be formed from volunteers in cooperation with other technical committees if possible. The committee would then start meetings and discussions and explore the University option both in USA and other places of the world. As part of the process, costs will be obtained, other logistics would be investigated such as dates, support staff, lodging,..etc. Then a report would be made and submitted to the community and the BoG with viable alternatives. As part of the process, inquires would go to Universities via Faculty members. This is how it should be done, not as you say "get initial information".
>
>We have hosted meetings at other universities (TPC meetings in NYC and
>Sigcomm at Karlsruhe), and there were often fees associated with room
>use (setup and cleanup charges at least).
Ofcourse there will charges for many things: website, a/v, computers,..etc. ..etc. Once again this should be done properly through a committee with a clear mandate from the community.
>> When I said "all over the city" I meant the same facilities are
>> repeated all over the city. So we have auditoriums and class rooms at
>> the Graduate school on fifth ave, and the same facilities at City
>> College, and the same facilities at Baruch College.. and so on.
>
>Thank you for the clarification. I mistook your note as expecting
>attendees to travel between sites.
Ok. you are welcome.
>> 2. YOU are the one who is making asserations that Universities venues
>> could not work. I am saying this is an option that needs to be explored
>> and investigated.
>
>Having said that I helped organize Sigcomm at Karlsruhe, I'm not sure
>how that impression was given. What I am saying is that universities are
>NOT a "slam dunk" when it comes to overall conference costs, but that
>any venue depends on the particulars involved, of course.
I never said that Universities is a slam dunk. Go back to my prior messages. I have always maintained that it is an option that should be thoroughly explored because it is a serious viable alternative to expensive 5 stars hotels. I have always maintained that it is ONLY AN OPTION to be explored. Nothing more. You keep making the implication that I am saying that it is the ONLY option. I hope it is clear now.
>
>> 3. It is not useful to say that I need to submit a proposal to host
>> Globecom or ICC. I do not need to, and will not submit any proposal
>> simply because I do not want to host either conferences. I simply do not
>> have the time for it.
>
>Please see above. I'm asking you to provide information, not to host per
>se. This discussion has much heat, but needs more light. As you asked
>for transparency in the current costs (which I am currently arranging),
See my reply above. This is not the way to do it. Changing a model of doing business within the IEEE cannot be done by simply me getting some initial numbers from CUNY.
>I am asking you to provide more transparency to your claims that
>universities can be cheaper by providing an example.
Your analogy is not correct. Transparency in financial costs of previous conferences is good in order to understand how future conferences could be cheaper as well as maintain fiscal responsibility. Obtaining information specific to CUNY costs of organizing conference cannot be held at the same level of transparency as you claim. As I previously explained it should be part of a process of exploring the OPTION of Utilizing Universities. ONCE again, it is only an OPTION.
Finally, a Faculty member (could be me or any colleague)at CUNY or any University will provide all information that is needed through a proper process as I have explained above.
>
>> Furthermore, your statement is a form of sanction on our opinions and
>> discussions because you are saying I cannot discuss the option of
>> Universities unless I will host the events. Well, I do not want to host
>> any event, but others may want to.
>
>I apologize if my posts implied any sanctions. I'm only saying that we
>can all complain, but it takes action to result in change.
I am not complaining. No one is complaining. Once again you are making sanctions and accusations. You are making false assumptions and impressions about our discussions and opinions. If you do not like an opinion you call it complain without action. If you like it, you say it is a great idea!!. Useful Discussions cannot work out this way. There is no need for you to keep attacking ideas that you do not like. You simply state your opinion without giving adjectives such as complain and similar. This is yet another implicit way of sanction against our thinking and ideas. Please stick to the issues. Do not to sanction us. This is a free forum for exchanging ideas in a professional and respectable setting.
>Simply asking for "someone else to make it happen" isn't enough -
>especially at a university, as I note above. I'm suggesting that those
>with energetic opinions apply that energy in a constructive manner
>towards enabling change.
Once again it goes without saying. See my notes above.
>
>> 4. I have already done my part for a long time participating in
>> organizing events over the past 18 years. Still, I will participate in
>> any ad-hoc committee will seriously investigate tools and means to
>> utilize Universities as possible venues.
>
>Thank you!!! That is precisely the kind of action we need, and all I was
>asking for.
You are welcome, but your original message was one of attack and sanctioning of ideas not one searching for constructive alternatives and exchange of ideas. I have a very strong record of helping out the community by organizing symposia, conferences, workshops ..etc. I have represented the TCCC several times in many conferences.
>> 5. YOU are the chair of the TCCC so you should work with the
>> community and take these suggestions to BoG and followup on them.
>
>Although I have not cc'd the list on the posts, I have made several
>queries to the Comsoc already, and will post when I hear further.
>Joe
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