Re: [Tccc] Could the NSF be legally entitled to a huge refund from the IEEE?

Just to add a few points to this discussion:

First, I think it's fine to say "IEEE should run a leaner ship" - as long as the suggestions are concrete and realistic, rather than vague generalities - we get those about "cutting waste and abuse" from politicians before every election.

Those dissatisfied with the current society sponsorship model (as opposed to simply wanting to improve it) are also welcome to organize their own events, and to make it more reputable and cheaper than the existing alternatives. One of the advantages that IEEE or ACM sponsorship offers is some amount of credibility - as well as infrastructure such as the digital libraries. One can think of this as somewhat related to franchise models, such as Hyatt hotels or Starbucks. You get some reasonable assurance as to the quality of your experience, and have an 800 number to call when things go wrong. In franchises, the franchisee pays for the privilege of using the brand name, typically as a fraction of revenue.

Accusing, either directly or by implication, organization of malfeasance and possible violations of the law seems to deserve a higher burden of proof. Fortunately, the US doesn't have UK-style libel laws, but that does not mean that it is professional to make such accusations without due cause and some understanding of the issues, even if these accusations are qualified with wiggly question marks. (Those in the US are reminded of the political rhetorical trick of saying "somebody should look into whether my opponent is beating his wife" [cheating being apparently too common to merit TV ad dollars].) I think the discussion will be more productive if such accusations, implied or stated, are avoided - or, if you truly believe in this, you should contact the NSF Inspector General, the entity within the NSF responsible for such issues.

IEEE is hardly unaware of budget issues. As a random example, the IEEE President convened a task force to look at using electronic communications to reduce travel expenses for staff and volunteer travel. (Disclosure: I am a member of the committee.)

Finally, reserves and endowments are common ways that not-for-profits smooth income and expenses, as well as leverage interest/investment income to provide additional operating revenues. The Ford Foundation ($13.7 billion USD) and the Harvard University endowment ($26 billion USD) are two well-known examples. (Often, donations come in large, but unpredictable chunks, such as inheritances. Harvard can't just tell one of its alumni to hurry up and die already if it's running short on operating income one year.) By US tax laws, foundations have to expend at least 5% of their endowment each year.

Henning

On Dec 15, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Petri Mähönen wrote:

>
> No, no. I will not be drawn to this discussion, and line of thought.
>
> But just to finish my line on this part of discussion. There is
> nothing
> particularly tricky on making bookkeeping level financial calculations.
> Presenting "different pictures" hints towards "Innovative bookkeeping",
> and I would not make even hints on that without having some evidence
> on that. Second, although not being accountant I am not a complete
> amateur
> on the subject, and I am expecting that our finance VP etc. are very
> much
> experts on this. Third, no profit is not layman term. There are
> different issues
> on this such as "operating profit", "net profit" etc. And no you
> cannot leave
> investments and assets out of the consideration. This is not how
> bookkeeping
> or even good corporate practice could operate. Remember also the
> investments
> are providing income, so no investment income --> more membership fees,
> less surplus from conferences. Also many operations may come more
> expensive
> without capital and assets. As of 160MUSD assets, it does not sound
> that exceptional
> for me for the "shop" which has ca. 400MUSD revenues/expenses. Even in
> the private households there is typically a rule of thumb that you
> should have
> 6 months emergency funds available to sleep well. In fact, I know even
> couple
> of student unions (at the single university level -- in Europe!) who
> have larger net
> assets that IEEE.
>
> But as said, I will not continue this discussion.
>

_______________________________________________
Tccc mailing list
Tccc@lists.cs.columbia.edu
https://lists.cs.columbia.edu/cucslists/listinfo/tccc