These are not private discussions between Virgilio and Joe. They are
discussing very important matters that many of us do not know or have
no means to find out.
In other words, though many of us are not sending out emails in
response to them, we are keenly following the discussions in our
attempt to improve ComSoc.
These lively discussions are not aimed at hurting anyone.
Without these discussions what is the purpose of the TCCC mailing list.
Thanks
Sincerely
bsmanoj
On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Gunnar Karlsson <gk@ee.kth.se> wrote:
> Dear Virgilio,
>
> Could this discourse continue elsewhere, please? The participation is now
> down to you on the questioning side, with responses from Joe and
> occasionally Henning. I believe that direct email serves well for such
> small groups.
>
> Gunnar Karlsson
>
> Den 2009-12-21 18:29:11 skrev Virgilio Rodriguez
> <rodriguez@ti.rwth-aachen.de>:
>
>> Joe Touch wrote:
>>> Some further context...
>>>
>>> Virgilio Rodriguez wrote:
>>> ...
>>> > The above ENDS the participation of the academic side.
>>>
>>> > Further evidence of this, see a direct quote from Prof. Roy previous
>>> > message:
>>> > "I was Vice-Chair of a Comsoc Conference, I did not see a full
>>> budget. I
>>> > asked recently the TPC Chair(s) for upcoming ComSoc conference as to
>>> > whether he had seen a full budget, and the answer was no."
>>>
>>> > So, obviously, the academic side has very little or nothing to do with
>>> > money. If there is a money/budget problem, one has to look elsewhere.
>>>
>>> Sumit was vice-TPC chair. As Henning points out, TPCs have very little
>>> involvement with the finances of a meeting.
>> Hi, Joe:
>> If I have at any point insulted your intelligence, I do sincerely
>> apologise. It has always been my intention to treat you as a very
>> intelligent person, who can follow the logic of arguments, and who will
>> not be easily confused by ill-conceived pretexts and simple sophistry.
>> Would it be too much to ask that you reciprocate?
>>
>> We all agree that TPC people do not handle money, or get deeply involved
>> in budgetary affairs. (Vice-chairs are another matter).
>>
>> But the pretext being given not to release the detailed item by item
>> spreadsheet of ANY major IEEE/ComSoc events is that each and every
>> IEEE/ComSoc conference EVER organised by ComSoc in its ENTIRE history
>> came with a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) covering EACH and every cost
>> item. Respectfully, I find that pretext insulting to mine and every
>> readers intelligence.
>>
>> But even if one was to accept it, that pretext does not work, quite
>> obviously does not work, for people in top positions in the concerned
>> event.
>>
>> At least THEY SHOULD SEE the complete budget (whether they work on it or
>> not). Can you at least agree to that?
>>
>> Please, do not even attempt to put forward the argument that not even a
>> Vice-Chair, or a top TPC person can SEE the complete budget because of
>> some mysterious NDA (not a single one has been shown yet).
>>
>> SEEing a complete budget, and working on it are two very different
>> things. If I was putting a lot of work to organise the technical side of
>> a major conference I would expect, at least as a cortesy, to have the
>> privilege os seeing the complete budget, to see where all the money I am
>> helping earn is going. Would you not agree?
>> Especially, a General Vice-Chair should be able to, since s/he may be
>> asked to replace the General Chair in case os some sort of emergency,
>> would you not agree?
>>
>> Another thing is that the NDA besides being invisible are also
>> perpetual. Even highly-classified security government information is
>> released EVENTUALLY. Apparently not so, the ComSoc conference financial
>> data.
>>
>> Or are you willing to release the detailed spreadsheet of an OLD
>> conference (say ICC2007, or even Globecom/WCNC 2004)? Even if the prices
>> are not current they could provide useful information.
>>
>> Can you do so, or is that too much to ask?
>>
>> (below)
>>
>>>
>>> > It is beyond me, why aren't the people who actually manage the money
>>> > being the ones addressing money issues.
>>>
>>> Program chairs make decisions for individual meetings, but those budgets
>>> are always approved and reviewed by the Comsoc. Fred *is* one of the
>>> people who helps do that - he has helped organize and advise numerous
>>> conferences.
>> Sorry, but I do not see Fred's name in the ComSoc staff list:
>> http://ww2.comsoc.org/about/staff
>> The list is so long, though, that I may be missing him. Please, feel
>> free to point out where he is.
>>
>> It does not seem to be any of the following people:
>>
>> MEETINGS AND CONFERENCES - Support for meetings and conferences -
>> approvals, site/date selections, procedures, marketing, financial
>> reports.
>> Director, Conferences - Bruce Worthman
>> 212 705 8909 | b.worthman(@)comsoc.org
>> Senior Conference Planner - Debora Kingston
>> 212 705 8942 | d.kingston(@)comsoc.org
>> Senior Conference Planner - June Leach-Barnaby
>> 212 705 8940 | j.leach-barnaby(@)comsoc.org
>> Senior Conference Planner - Gayle Weisman
>> 212 705 8941 | g.weisman(@)comsoc.org
>> Meetings Administrator - Phyllis Curran O'Neill
>> 212 705 8946 | p.oneill(@)comsoc.org
>> Conference Coordinator - Giorgie Millamena
>> 212 705 8943 | g.millamena(@)comsoc.org
>> Compliance Coordinator Conference Operations - Bridget Erlikh
>> 212 705 7929 | b.erlikh(@)comsoc.org
>>
>> Or these:
>> FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION - Financial matters, office management and
>> administration.
>> Director, Finance and Admin - Bruce Worthman
>> 212 705 8909 | b.worthman(@)comsoc.org
>> Finance and Admin Associate - Sharon McCants
>> 212 705 8972 | s.mccants(@)comsoc.org
>>
>> I would not expect that ALL these people (seemingly FT employees,
>> although who can be sure?) would need the help of a volunteer, which I
>> thought Fred is.
>>
>> Is he helping them as a paid consultant?
>>
>> Virgilio
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>
>
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--
B. S. Manoj, Ph.D
Electrical and Computer Engineering
University of California San Diego,
CA 92093-0436, USA
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